--- Log opened Wed Apr 06 17:01:19 2005
17:01 -!- xiphlog [~giles@westfish.xiph.osuosl.org] has joined #xiphmeet
17:01 -!- Topic for #xiphmeet: Welcome to the Xiph.org meeting and discussion channel | Next monthly meeting at 23:59 GMT April 6 : http://wiki.xiph.org/MonthlyMeeting200504 | log of the last meeting at http://www.xiph.org/minutes/2005/march/raw/index.txt
17:01 -!- Topic set by rillian [] [Wed Apr  6 11:20:43 2005]
17:01 [Users #xiphmeet]
17:01 [ adiabatic] [ derf_ ] [ HackRip ] [ J_Bullet] [ rillian    ] [ xiphlog] 
17:01 [ Atamido  ] [ edrz  ] [ illi    ] [ karlH   ] [ thomasvs   ] 
17:01 [ blanu    ] [ ginger] [ Intangir] [ kfish   ] [ vanguardist] 
17:01 -!- Irssi: #xiphmeet: Total of 16 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
17:01 -!- Channel #xiphmeet created Wed Dec  1 06:43:50 2004
17:01 -!- Irssi: Join to #xiphmeet was synced in 1 secs
17:02 -!- SebastianG [[U2FsdGVkX@albarino.cs.upb.de] has joined #xiphmeet
17:02 -!- rillian changed the topic of #xiphmeet to: Welcome to the Xiph.org meeting and discussion channel | Next monthly meeting at 23:59 GMT April 6 : http://wiki.xiph.org/MonthlyMeeting200504 | live log at http://westfish.xiph.org/~giles/200504_meeting.txt
17:03 < rillian> hi everyone
17:03 < J_Bullet> hi!
17:03 < rillian> let's wait a couple of minutes and see if monty shows up
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17:04 < rillian> hi Garf, J_Bullet 
17:05 < rillian> well ok. I suppose I'll chair this time
17:05 < rillian> Hi everybody, thanks for coming!
17:05 < rillian> first item on the agenda is the new website
17:05 < rillian> melissa finished the templates last month
17:05 < rillian> (except for the theora logo, which is still pending)
17:06 < rillian> and Atamido did a great job turning it into CSS
17:06 < rillian> Atamido: what's new since then?
17:07 < derf_> 19:32:39 < Atamido> When the meeting does start, would someone mention these sites?  http://xiph.org.commo.de/ http://vorbis.com.commo.de/ http://flac.xiph.org.commo.de/
17:07 < derf_> 19:33:09 < Atamido> Oh, and http://xspf.org.commo.de/
17:07 < derf_> 19:33:24 < Atamido> Need to know what exactly I am supposed to be doing.
17:07 < derf_> 19:33:40 < Atamido> Also if anyone has anything in particular they need to comment on about the sites.
17:07 < rillian> there we go, voices of the past preserved through the magic of modern technology
17:07 < derf_> Not sure if he's going to be here in person, but that's what he said earlier.
17:08 < rillian> IIRC we're stalled on people porting the content from the old site to the new site design in http://svn.xiph.org/websites-new/
17:08 < rillian> a current live example of which is at atamidos links earlier
17:08 < rillian> so if anyone is inspired to do so, please chip in
17:08 < rillian> and help atamido with formatting and layout comments as requested
17:09 < rillian> any questions on the website?
17:09 < adiabatic> When'll something go up on any one of the website?
17:09 < adiabatic> Is there much left at all?
17:09 < adiabatic> (that is, for one website to be replaced)
17:09 < rillian> adiabatic: there's quite a lot of content to port
17:10 < rillian> vorbis.com is slightly smaller than xiph.org I think
17:10 < rillian> but there wasn't much done besides the front pages last I looked
17:11 < rillian> Ok. next item is SXSW
17:11 < rillian> Jack, Monty, Atamido and I attended
17:11 < rillian> we had a small booth in the trade show
17:11 < rillian> and it was good to meet everyone in person
17:11 < adiabatic> Any photo galleries, incidentally?
17:11 < rillian> one contact with a film maker
17:12 < rillian> you can see jack and I here: http://people.xiph.org/~giles/2005/sxsw/sterling-audience-markup.jpg :)
17:12 < rillian> I don't think anyone put up a full gallery
17:12 < rillian> but it was my first time there, and I really enjoyed it
17:13 < rillian> was good to meet some of the regulars.
17:13 < rillian> We ended up not doing the streaming, but the company that did was using icecast :)
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17:13 < rillian> Monty brought the new marketing materials, and they look nice
17:13 < rillian> gave out a couple
17:14 < rillian> Sony declined to make a promotional donation of one of the HDV cameras they were pushing
17:14 < J_Bullet> good clear picture of you guys...
17:15 < rillian> I took some pictures. I'll put them up later since people are interested.
17:15 < rillian> J_Bullet: that's from bruce sterling's celphone, I think
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17:15 < rillian> hi brendan!
17:15 < rillian> anyway, that's all I have to say about it
17:15 < brendan> hi :)
17:16 < rillian> On to the project updates
17:16 < rillian> I talked to monty about the libogg2 api
17:16 < rillian> so I have a much better idea how it's supposed to work now
17:16 < rillian> and increasing the number of people who could write the docs by one :)
17:17 < adiabatic> Huzzah.
17:17 < rillian> unfortunately we found some holes in it, so there's a bit more work to do
17:17 < rillian> anything new with vorbis?
17:17 < rillian> Monty mentioned looking at the aotuv b3 encoder and liking it
17:18 < rillian> anyone else feel free to chime in with relevent news :)
17:18 < karlH> I hear there is b4 coming out soon if not already
17:18 < rillian> karlH: ah, excellent
17:18 < rillian> Speex, jm has continued to tune the fixed point implementation
17:18 < rillian> and there's been a steady stream of application developer questions, including a lot of embedded stuff
17:19 < rillian> FLAC I haven't seen anything new
17:19 < rillian> oh, illi: there was a complaint on the flac list from someone who couldn't get playback to work with your filters, but the codecodec ones did
17:19 < rillian> it wasn't properly diagnosed though
17:20 < rillian> Theora:
17:20 < rillian> ruik did some mmx optimization on derf's experimental decoder
17:20 < rillian> derf_: he got around 20% so far, is that right?
17:20 < derf_> 11%, I think it was, actually.
17:21 < rillian> but he hasn't done the dct yet?
17:21 < derf_> But he hasn't done the iDCT yet, or the loop filter, so there's still room for improvement.
17:21 < rillian> ok
17:21 < rillian> So that was something
17:21 < derf_> The iDCT should be straightforward, but the loop filter is looking challenging.
17:21 < derf_> Not sure how much he can get out of that part.
17:22 < rillian> A couple of conferences, including the drupal sections of FOSDEM and the Fedora Users and Developer Conference released their talks in theora
17:22 < rillian> derf_: right
17:22 < rillian> The big excitement in theoraland was of course elphel.com's theora cameras
17:23 < derf_> Yes, nice bit of work there.
17:23 < rillian> they do 1280x1024 30fps theora at 1-2 Mbps
17:23 < derf_> The resolution of which has spurred on this optimization work.
17:23 < GShang> nice.
17:23 < rillian> with an open source hardware fpga encoder
17:23 < rillian> the irony is that the encoder draws about 3 watts
17:23 < rillian> but no one's managed to play back the streams at full speed on *any* hardware
17:24 < rillian> so we need some serious decoder optimizations to demonstrate that
17:24 < rillian> Also, Andrey Filippov, the guy behind it is a very strong open source supporter
17:24 < rillian> and he's donated two of the camera to xiph.org for testing/development/evangelism purposes
17:25 < derf_> Yes, and he's published at least one article so far about the cameras, pushing the open-source aspect.
17:25 < rillian> I received them today, and will get a stream going asap
17:26 < rillian> plan is for me to take at least one to guadec, LSM, and my visit with fluendo in barcelona this summer
17:26 < rillian> but if anyone else has a compelling case for borrowing one, please let me know
17:26 < rillian> Any questions on all that?
17:26 < ginger> sounds interesting
17:26 < rillian> ginger: they're way cool.
17:26 < ginger> if we had it before next week, we could use if for streaming at Linux conf
17:27 < rillian> they're designed as security cameras, so the image quality isn't great
17:27 < rillian> but they're *tiny*
17:27 < ginger> oh :)
17:27 < rillian> ginger: you can always ask him
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17:27 < ginger> I guess we want a bit better quality for the conference then
17:28 < rillian> the streaming part doesn't work yet though, so someone would have to stay up a few nights for you to use them
17:28 < rillian> ginger: well, the resolution makes up for a lot
17:28 < ginger> we'll keep it in mind for future stuff I guess
17:28 < rillian> but you'd probably be better off with a good quality minidv camera
17:28 < rillian> brendan, karlH: what's new with icecast?
17:28 < ginger> we've got a camera setup already with dv
17:29 < ginger> streaming theora with flumotion then
17:29 < karlH> nothing much, people have been busy elsewhere
17:29 < rillian> ginger: cool. thomas will be happy
17:29 < rillian> karlH: what's next on the roadmap?
17:29 < karlH> I'm looking into extending the listener auth side of things initially
17:30 < rillian> that's the private stream stuff people have been requesting?
17:30 < karlH> then mering the on-demand relay support
17:30 < karlH> *merging
17:31 < karlH> yeah, thing like subscription streams or part of portals
17:32 < GShang> Quite a few new user posts lately which is a good sign.
17:32 < rillian> GShang: yay
17:32 < karlH> the stream directory seems to be running fine as well
17:32 < GShang> Karl, I filed a bug the other day, should I post about it too or is there no need?
17:33 < rillian> yeah, that's gone surprisingly smoothly. I kept expecting it to always break on upgrades like it used to. :)
17:33 < karlH> if it's in trac then it's fine
17:33 < GShang> Karl, ok.
17:33 < rillian> if that's it for icecast, next project is the RTP stuff
17:33 < karlH> yeah
17:33 < GShang> Oddsock's stream dir at least was down a few days ago with his website move, induced a crash in a server i maintain.  but that's a known problem I think.
17:34 < rillian> Phil Kerr couldn't make it, but sent a report
17:34 < rillian> RTP wise this month as seen the submitting of the Speex draft.  There
17:34 < rillian> was a problem with the versioning number, I submitted an -03 draft and
17:34 < rillian> the IETF knocked it back saying it should be an -02 version.
17:34 < rillian> It is the same as the one submitted a few weeks ago, which was bounced due to the
17:34 < rillian> IETF meeting.  This should be out of the submission queue today or
17:34 < rillian> tomorrow and I'll send an email when I see it.  Vorbis and Theora, need
17:34 < rillian> to nail the protocol specs down *hard*, so the only changes are small
17:34 < rillian> ones from here on in.  Haven't had chance to look at the FLAC-RTP draft yet.
17:34 < rillian> so speex draft submitted
17:34 < rillian> the vorbis and theora drafts were stalled on the decoder setup id field
17:35 < rillian> phil had proposed a CRC32 of the setup data
17:35 < rillian> but derf worried about collisions, at least with theora
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17:35 < rillian> I proposed a compromise last night to try and get the ball rolling again
17:35 < rillian> but no one has commented yet
17:35 < rillian> once we settle that we can have a draft that people can start implementing
17:36 < rillian> and work out the codebook delivery mechanisms
17:36 < GShang> Is there a speex implmementation?
17:36 < rillian> Andrey was also interested in RTP theora for the camera
17:36 < rillian> GShang: I think gnomemeeting and a number of the sip phones use speex-over-rtp
17:36 < rillian> I don't know which draft they implement
17:37 -!- acolwell [~acolwell@vp135.atm01.sea.blarg.net] has joined #xiphmeet
17:38 < rillian> acolwell: we just finished the RTP update
17:38 < acolwell> ok. Looking at the log right now
17:38 < rillian> any comments?
17:40 < acolwell> nothing specific at the moment. I'd like to nail down the RTP specs for Theora and Vorbis as soon as we can. Where can I find the most up to date versions of the drafts?
17:40 < rillian> I don't think there are newer versions than what's in svn
17:40 < rillian> but there's a bunch of consensus that needs to be rolled into them
17:40 < rillian> phil's site is http://www.plus24.com/xiph/
17:40 < acolwell> I guess I was hoping that had already been done
17:41 < rillian> alas, no
17:41 < rillian> feel free to send letters of encouragement :)
17:41 < rillian> Ok, XSPF
17:41 < rillian> They're joining xiph
17:41 < rillian> and still trying to figure out what that means
17:41 < rillian> but we have their spec work in svn
17:41 < rillian> and have transferred ownership of the domain
17:42 < rillian> we have a legal volunteer drawing up a formal agreement to back up the informal one
17:42 < rillian> hope to have all that tied up by the end of the month
17:42 < rillian> I don't think any xspf people are here
17:43 < rillian> illi, kfish: what's new with the directshow filters?
17:43 < rillian> as far as the last three items go (iceshare, postfish, cdparanoia) I'm not aware of any progress since last month, so if no one has anything we can move on to the next section of the agenda
17:44 < ginger> I suppose illi has not had much chance to do much work on them
17:44 < rillian> ginger: seems so. he's busy with other things?
17:44 < ginger> yeah: uni and a different contract
17:44 < rillian> fair enough, but too bad
17:45 < ginger> also: it's 7am in Perth and this isn't his time of day :)
17:45 < rillian> ginger: do you want to give us an update on CMML and annodex?
17:45 < ginger> sure
17:45 < ginger> we've just put new internet-drafts on annodex, CMML and the timed URI queries up to IETF
17:46 < ginger> all of our code about Annodex has moved to version 3
17:46 < ginger> which is the one supporting skeleton
17:47 < ginger> skeleton has turned out to be an excellent decision and if anybody wants to do flexible multitrack ogg, feel free to use it
17:47 < rillian> ah great
17:47 < ginger> also, CMML is growing up 
17:47 < kfish> http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/OggSkeleton
17:47 < rillian> kfish: nice to have the new spec on annodex.net too
17:47 < derf_> Yeah, the skeleton stuff looked really nice, from what I've seen of it.
17:48 < ginger> we're workin on a version 3 for that which will include style sheet formatting and external links
17:48 < ginger> as it stands now, CMML 2 is really stable and nice
17:49 < ginger> if you've installed the Firefox plugin for annodex, you can see all the text and structure around the video which all comes out of cmml
17:49 < ginger> firefox plugins are available for windows, os x, and linux now
17:49 < rillian> yeah, I've played with that some
17:49 < ginger> http://www.annodex.net/
17:49 < rillian> it's very much the web-assisted tv interface
17:50 < kfish> or the tv-assisted web interface!
17:50 < ginger> but with hyperlinks!
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17:50 < ginger> and search engine
17:50 < rillian> ginger: exactly
17:50 < ginger> and kfish has improved mod_annodex heaps
17:50 < rillian> I don't know if you've watched the Nova program produced by the PBS network in the US, but they're always trying to do this sort of thing
17:50 < rillian> only without the functional web part
17:51 < ginger> I bbelieve it will also do time offsets for ogg theora or ogg vorbis
17:51 < ginger> rillian, no I don't know Nova
17:51 < rillian> kfish: btw, could you put the proposal you had for how to mark MNG overlays for theora and such in the wiki?
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17:52 < kfish> rillian: yeah sure, got to dig that up :)
17:52 < rillian> ta
17:52 < ginger> kfish, tell us about python ;)
17:52 < rillian> ginger: they often do overlays on the broadcast stream in the same general idea
17:52 < ginger> oh!
17:52 < rillian> and have awebsite for each show
17:53 < ginger> but online and interactive and searchable is much better
17:53 < rillian> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/
17:53 < rillian> ginger: of course
17:53 < rillian> unfortunately PBS, despite its name, isn't a very public-friendly network
17:53 < ginger> is nova a bit like the discovery channel?
17:54 < rillian> other way around, but yeah
17:54 < ginger> oh :)
17:54 < rillian> general science programming
17:54  * ginger doesn't watch tv much
17:54 < rillian> 's ok
17:54 < rillian> different country
17:54 < rillian> but I grew up watching them
17:54 < rillian> anyway, we've drifted off topic
17:54 < rillian> kfish: python?
17:55 < kfish> ah, i've been playing with pyannodex a lot, for dynamic content generation
17:55 < rillian> ginger: is it true kfish is coming to guadec as well?
17:55 < kfish> ie. cgi scripts that recompose media and insert metadata on the fly
17:55 < kfish> i'll be doing a tute on 'building dynamic video webs' at w3c in chiba in may
17:55 -!- GShang [geoff@CPE-60-226-28-201.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:55 < ginger> you should mention that your cgi script does time offsets for all ogg formats
17:55 < kfish> ginger: you just did :)
17:55 < kfish> and hopefully will be able to make it to guadec, yes :)
17:56 < ginger> nah, I said mod_annodex does
17:56 < ginger> but in cgi i'ts even better
17:56 < rillian> kfish: cool
17:56 < kfish> well, it took about 3 minutes to code in python, but that's after putting all the nasty bits in C first :-)
17:57 < rillian> thomas will be happy :)
17:57 < kfish> another (more general) thing i might mention is the oggzinfo and oggz-validate commandline tools, which will be in the next liboggz release
17:57 < ginger> you could address a theora video as in http://media.xiph.org/video.ogg?t=20
17:57 < ginger> and get 20 sec into it for serving
17:58 < kfish> and it delivers video from the previous keyframe etc.
17:58 < kfish> http://www.annodex.net/software/mod_annodex/ describes that kind of functionality
17:58 < rillian> oh, speaking of python, and in the interests of cross-polination, the v2v(.cc) project has been working the the drupal cms people to integrate bittorrent propagation of theora video between websites
17:59 < ginger> nice
17:59 < rillian> might be some intersection with annodex there
17:59 < rillian> then we just have to get archive.org to see the light :)
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17:59 < rillian> http://v2v.cc/htdocs/
18:00 < rillian> Anyway, in the interests of time, how about we move on
18:00 < rillian> mailing list administration
18:00 < rillian> anyone have anything specific?
18:00 < GShang> ah, I see my cable connectioncame back at the right time
18:00 < rillian> Now that mike's on vacation, we need moderators
18:01 < GShang> I took over the icecast lists.
18:01 < rillian> otherwise, non-member list posts will just get dropped in the bit bucket
18:01 < rillian> GShang: excellent, thanks
18:01 < rillian> I clear some of the lists when I think about it
18:01 < GShang> A lot of spam allegedly comes from .ru domains (mail.ru, subscribe.ru, rambler.ru, etc).
18:01 < GShang> There is an antispam link on www.subscribe.ru but I don't speak the language so I don't know if there's anything useful there.
18:01 < rillian> a lot spam our filters don't catch anyway
18:02 < rillian> remember you're just seeing what makes it into the maybe pile :)
18:02 < rillian> anyway, if you'd like to help Geoff and I out, see the list at http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/MailingLists
18:02 < rillian> and email me for access
18:02 < GShang> A lot of these messages are quite large and go to both icecast and icecast-dev.  Not sure if we can do anything to reduce the list admin work for these - are we doing any spam blocking?
18:03 < rillian> GShang: iirc there's upstream spam blocking at osuosl
18:03 < GShang> ah so they run it.
18:03 < rillian> we could try lowering the max message size
18:03 < rillian> but that sometimes interferes with patches
18:03 < rillian> Webforums: anyone done anything on this?
18:03 < GShang> It's just that a lot ofthese look so simimlar that surely something could be done about them.
18:04 < rillian> I don't think anything's happened with the web forums
18:05 < rillian> bounties: I suppose I've pledged $300 for qt components that include ogg theora export and playback
18:05 < rillian> but otherwise, no
18:06 < rillian> if someone can ask an accountant (US CPA) about the collecting targeted donations rules, that would help
18:06 < rillian> I didn't get around to asking my aunt until tax season had started
18:06 < rillian> Any comments or questions?
18:07 < rillian> item 5 is migrate wiki to trac
18:07 < rillian> this would be nice because you can link to bugs from the wiki and vice versa
18:07 < GShang> I asked a couple of meetings back if we need to do anything to get this bounty stuff going.
18:07 < GShang> last time I looked, the various tasks were listed, but there didn't seem to be any way to donate/pledge money, etc.
18:08 < rillian> otoh, mediawiki that we're using for wiki.xiph.org is a nicer wiki
18:08 < rillian> so I'm inclined to keep the split for now
18:08 < rillian> can whoever put this on the agenda comment?
18:08 < rillian> GShang: yeah, that's what the question was about
18:09 < rillian> We also have to get board approval for an initial budget
18:09 < rillian> I think we have about $1k to split
18:09 < rillian> but none of them are here
18:10 < derf_> rillian: Re: moving the Wiki to Trac, that was Arc, who doesn't appear to be here.
18:10 < rillian> derf_: ok. recall any arguments?
18:10 < derf_> No, I just got that out of the revision log.
18:10 < GShang> re the WIKI, I've not seen a trac WIKI, but if the current one we have is better then I think we should consider sticking with it since sacrificing functionality/usability for this bug linking feature would seem not to be a good idea.
18:11 < rillian> GShang: ok, that's two nay votes :)
18:11 < rillian> derf_: aha, thanks
18:11 < derf_> Also, MikeS strongly dislikes Trac, and I'm sure he'd rather not see it become more strongly entrenched.
18:11 < rillian> Right
18:12 < GShang> Since you can use WIKI formatting anyway in trac entries, couldn't you manually link to WIKI pages?
18:12 < rillian> Monty also strongly dislikes trac, but only because it's different, not because he actually thinks it's inferior
18:12 < rillian> GShang: you can. it's just the autolinking that's nice
18:12 < rillian> and of course there's some duplicate admin effort having both systems up
18:13 < rillian> I'm tired of hearing myself talk, but item 6 was mine
18:13 < GShang> As a bug tracker, I personally find the UI a lot easier than what we had previously, but not all versions of all components seem to be available to choose from.
18:13 < rillian> the issue of ogg123 not playing all our formats came up recently
18:13 < rillian> last time we talked about it, consensus was that ogg123 should remain vorbis-only, despite the name
18:14 < GShang> well, it already does speex and FLAC, doesn't it?
18:14 < rillian> but I was curious if people felt any different now
18:14 < rillian> GShang: does it? that would be good
18:14 < rillian> and just leave theora
18:15 < GShang> I wouldn't mind if it would play the audio of a theora/vorbis bitstream, but not sure if it can currently do that.
18:15 < rillian> GShang: (re trac) yes, that's pretty much why we switched. it doesn't handle multiple projects/components as well as bugzilla, but that's really the only thing I miss
18:15 < rillian> GShang: it can't because it uses vorbisfile, which chokes on multiplexed streams
18:16 < rillian> so fixing that would be a great step in itself
18:16 < GShang> ah ok.  fair enough.
18:16 < rillian> the problem with adding theora, really, is that having video out capabilities is a big change
18:16 < rillian> they can be optional
18:16 < rillian> and there's always libaa (or now libcaca I guess) for running in a terminal
18:17 < GShang> I suppose it really all depends if Xiph wants to have its own player implementation.  It's arguable there's really no need.  Of course, we do have the directshow filters already.
18:18 < rillian> I think there is a real need
18:18 < rillian> we spent quite a lot of time waiting for people to build awesome tools around our codec implementations
18:19 < rillian> and it didn't really happen
18:19 < kfish> huh?
18:19 < rillian> so I think we need to really push both framework plugins like illi's work, and our own stand alone players if we want to foster adoption
18:19 < GShang> well, ogg123 doesn't really seem to have a maintainer currently, am I right?
18:19 < rillian> kfish: present company excepted, of cource
18:19 < rillian> course
18:19 < rillian> GShang: there is that
18:20 < rillian> but we need to write a theoraplay
18:20 < kfish> rillian: no, i don't get it -- there are already too many free media players, and they all already support ogg formats -- what's the problem, and why should we make it worse?
18:20 < rillian> my question is really, should it be called theoraplay, or ogg123
18:21 < rillian> kfish: among other things, there's nothing crossplatform we can ship as a demo
18:21 < rillian> hxplay for linux is the only option that plays theora, but doesn't also play patented formats
18:22 < kfish> ok, so we should put all our copious free time into helping vlc, gstreamer, xine etc. with portability
18:22 < rillian> well, and totem-gstreamer
18:22 < ginger> and the firefox plugin of course ;)
18:22 < rillian> kfish: and modularity
18:22 < kfish> portability and removal of free codecs
18:22 < rillian> ginger: there is that :)
18:22 < rillian> there are several competing firefox plugins, aren't there?
18:22 < rillian> I saw something about a totem one on advogato
18:22 < blanu> I use vlc for all of my theora demos. You can compile it without support for other formats.
18:23 < rillian> blanu: oh? that's great new. stan said you couldn't easily remove mpeg
18:23 < rillian> nes
18:23 < rillian> news :P
18:23 < rillian> (and hey! was nice to meet you a sxsw)
18:23 < acolwell_> rillian: Helix's splay can also play Theora and I believe it builds for Mac, Windows, and Linux. I don't know if we have a regular distribution package for it though
18:23 < blanu> rillian: You too. I want to show you a demo of our stuff soon.
18:23  * ginger has not heard about a totem firefox plugin for theora
18:24 < blanu> Anyway, we're probably going to be packaging our own stripped down VLC without the stuff like CSS that makes it so it can't be distributed in the US.
18:24 < vanguardist> hhmm
18:25 < vanguardist> was needed a free VLC for linux/win/macosx for our demo cd
18:25 < rillian> yup
18:25 < vanguardist> we found that making it totally clean was too hard/impossible
18:25 < vanguardist> stan tried for a long time
18:25 < blanu> The reason I can see for making your own player is mainly so you can show off the crazy multi-track video playback. VLC isn't going to do that. I can't even get them to play back chained streams fullscreen without flickering in between each stream.
18:26 < ginger> too hard to fix?
18:26 < rillian> blanu: good point. having a testbed for new features is also a good reason to have *something*
18:26 < vanguardist> well, if you can make us a vlc that plays vorbis/speex/theora exclusively, that would be nice :)
18:27 < rillian> (and flac)
18:27 < kfish> vanguardist: that can be configured at build time -- the annodex firefox extension is built like that
18:27 < kfish> with vlc
18:28 < kfish> for windows,mac,linux
18:28 < vanguardist> well, i'll have to see what stan told me
18:28 < kfish> however for multitrack video you'd be better off starting with say gstreamer :)
18:28 < vanguardist> he said that even configured to the minimum and just for those 3 formats, it could play mpeg4
18:28 < vanguardist> and there were other bits still hardcoded in there
18:28 < blanu> gstreamer only really works on Linux.
18:28 < vanguardist> making it not xiph compatible
18:29 < kfish> vanguardist: eww :( we'd better check
18:29 < vanguardist> heh
18:29 < blanu> I don't understand why you feel it's necessary to purge all other codecs. The important thing there to be is to just remove any proprietary or illegal code which would keep you from freely distributing your ogg-only version.
18:30 < vanguardist> please do. this was the main reason holing up our fantastic demo CD/DVD
18:31 < rillian> blanu: you mean leave the code in but disable it?
18:31 < rillian> that would be a lawyer question, I think :)
18:32 < rillian> anyway, this has been a nice discussion
18:32 < rillian> but I think we should wrap up the official meeting
18:32 < rillian> anyone second adjournment?
18:32 < derf_> I'll second.
18:32 < GShang> Seconded
18:32 < rillian> ok, we're done
18:33 < rillian> thanks everyone for coming
18:33 < ginger> thanks for holding it
18:33 < rillian> next meeting is 12:00 GMT, May 4
18:33 < rillian> we now return you to regular irc
18:33 < xiphlog> quit
--- Log closed Wed Apr 06 18:33:45 2005